DBA Special - Egyptian Double Feature
Fri, Feb 17 2012 03:40
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Here's a quick look at the two armies featured in our DBA Participation Game 'Lords of the Nile' ...
They constitute the first delivery phase of my refurbishment of the flats collection I acquired at Fiasco last year. The presentation is to what I would call 'wargames standard' rather than flats collector standard: (a) I'm working with an existing collection, rather than painting from scratch; (b) a few experiments revealed that the aesthetics differ between figures destined to be viewed flat and individually and those destined to be viewed en-masse on multiple bases.
The basing is in the modern landscaped idiom (and to standard 25/28mm base sizes).
So these are the results so far (I am still learning). People seem to have liked the refreshingly different look of these traditional figures - and have enjoyed them as collector curios ...
The lead army is New Kingdom Egyptian, which I have cast on a punitive mission on the banks of the Nile. Their enemies I have styled 'Rebellious Tribes' as although the figures are mostly Nubian, I have chosen to organise the army using the Libyan list. The rationale is simple enough: using the Libyan list gives the rebels a chariot general! Otherwise there is little difference between the Libyan and Nubian lists.
NEW KINGDOM EGYPTIAN 1543-1200 BC
(The Egyptian host arrayed)
(Chariot general + 3xLCh)
(archers: 4x4Bw)
(infantry: 3x3/4Bd + 1 Ps)THE REBELLIOUS TRIBAL SUBJECTS (Early Libyan 1250 - 660 BC)
(The rebellious tribes arrayed)
(The Libyan Chariot General)
(Warriors: 3x3 Wb)
(archers: 3x3Bw)
(tribal skirmishers: 5xPs)The armies follow the existing DBA V2.2 lists, although the games have been played using the latest trial version of V3. Victories have been even between the armies.
Lords of the Nile featured at Vapnartak and Hammerhead. The next shows outings will feature Phil Sabin's Lost Battles (Cavalier) and Will and Graham's Plataea (WMMS). Lords of the Nile will probably be back for Campaign in May ...
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12th February, Newark (Kelham Hall)
Tue, Feb 14 2012 04:10
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HAMMERHEAD 2012
Hammerhead is the other wargames show at Newark's splendid Kelham Hall - COGS not Newark Irregulars (and by reputation, more fantasy and Sci-Fi than historical) ...
Perfect ground, then, for the Society of Ancients to go promoting the historical wargame, and to be showcasing ancients.
And, indeed, although the show is smaller - and less historically focused - Hammerhead gives us a sensible, main hall (the Dome) position ... so we got more visitors and more players than we got in our (300 mile round trip!) visit to Vapnartak last week.
We played twice as many games.
(Lords of the Nile 30mm DBA V3 game at Hammerhead)
We took along 'Lords of the Nile', our DBA V3 30mm flats Participation Game.
People certainly seem to be enjoying the unique look of the traditional flat figures, and I have to say that DBA V3 is providing us with a good, reasonably quick and balanced game.
Lords of the Nile will do most of the Shows North (north and midlands) shows until 'Call it Qids' - the show version of the Society's brand new Ian Russell Lowell/Graham Evans Kadesh game - debuts at Campaign in May.
There are far fewer big 28mm static 'games' at Hammerhead than at most shows we visit (it does more of the 'small and interesting' games ... and has more of an emphasis on them being played) ...
Nevertheless, I enjoyed seeing and chatting to the paper terrain people (haven't had a good look at one of theirs in a while)
(French beachhead done in folded paper)
Actually, talking of beaches, there was quite a lot of sand at Hammerhead ... Not only did our game feature the lands of the Nile, a number of the fantasy games explored similar themes (in their own quirky ways). I liked the look of this offering from the WarGods people (who were also very helpful in my despairing quest to find a half-decent 28mm Ramesses for the Qids game).
(more Egyptian mayhem)
But the 'sand kings of Kelham' were undoubtedly the Peterborough club (with more fantasy nonsense) who brought and set up their own sand table.
It was quite shallow, and wasn't really coloured up (other than as sand ...) but nevertheless, it was interesting to see it (cleverly) done - and yes, even though it was comparatively shallow, it was a big table and there were heaps of sand ... as became apparent when they started scooping it all up at the end of the day.
(more sand ... much more sand)
My sand was just a dry brush effect using household emulsions ('Prairie Gold' and 'Parchment' colours over a 'Coffee' base - there, you see ... I knew you'd ask)
DBA V3
Even seasoned players have found the 'base widths' movement pleasing and well balanced, and with Egyptians and Libyans, the play runs very smoothly and plausibly.
We need to get Phil to clarify a wording issue on shooting, otherwise the rules and play are nice and clear.
As well as liking the movement, players have liked the changes to rear support (less of it), Psiloi movement (group moves in bad going etc.) and Psiloi outcomes (e.g. fleeing when doubled in shooting). with the Libyan army nearly half Psiloi, it is good to see they can do well against the heavier New Kingdom forces (we have done this set up over a dozen times and the armies a roughly level pegging) ...
We allow a little bit of diced-for terrain (as that is a feature of V3). I'm so pleased to see Phil replace the irrevocably broken terrain system in previous versions of the game. Time will tell what needs adjusting in the new mechanism, but the new set up is already better.
Not being destroyed by blocked recoils is a significant improvement, especially for us using the game as an introduction to ancients at shows (and for all comers) - explaining to players why they must lose elements just because they recoil at an inconvenient angle (despite there being precious little justification for it in military history) has always been thorny. The newer approach seems much truer to DBA's game scale.
I have to own up I couldn't resist a few snaps of this game (played between a father and son, neither of them familiar with DBx or with ancients) ...
Against Dad's linear tactic, and against our better advice, the lad chose to block his Egyptian army up into a huge single group wedge. It looked awesome, but we were all pretty sure it wouldn't work.
(New Kingdom Egyptian Panzerkeil)
As the enemy approached, the wedge split apart into three columns (it was like watching a well choreographed movie).
(Charge! You can get a bigger image by clicking on the picture)
Each of the fronts subsequently got overlapped, but survived, the columns spread out, and ... defeated the shallow lines of warriors. And we really thought it couldn't possibly work.
Then again, it was an example of a lad beating his Dad at DBA (and that I have seen on numerous occasions!).
DBA Version 3 seems a better game than Version 2.2 from a historical player perspective. I have been surprised by how well it has stood up to all comers (the real 'road' test) ...
Hammerhead is the other wargames show at Newark's splendid Kelham Hall - COGS not Newark Irregulars (and by reputation, more fantasy and Sci-Fi than historical) ...Perfect ground, then, for the Society of Ancients to go promoting the historical wargame, and to be showcasing ancients.
And, indeed, although the show is smaller - and less historically focused - Hammerhead gives us a sensible, main hall (the Dome) position ... so we got more visitors and more players than we got in our (300 mile round trip!) visit to Vapnartak last week.
We played twice as many games.
(Lords of the Nile 30mm DBA V3 game at Hammerhead)We took along 'Lords of the Nile', our DBA V3 30mm flats Participation Game.
People certainly seem to be enjoying the unique look of the traditional flat figures, and I have to say that DBA V3 is providing us with a good, reasonably quick and balanced game.
Lords of the Nile will do most of the Shows North (north and midlands) shows until 'Call it Qids' - the show version of the Society's brand new Ian Russell Lowell/Graham Evans Kadesh game - debuts at Campaign in May.
There are far fewer big 28mm static 'games' at Hammerhead than at most shows we visit (it does more of the 'small and interesting' games ... and has more of an emphasis on them being played) ...
Nevertheless, I enjoyed seeing and chatting to the paper terrain people (haven't had a good look at one of theirs in a while)
(French beachhead done in folded paper)Actually, talking of beaches, there was quite a lot of sand at Hammerhead ... Not only did our game feature the lands of the Nile, a number of the fantasy games explored similar themes (in their own quirky ways). I liked the look of this offering from the WarGods people (who were also very helpful in my despairing quest to find a half-decent 28mm Ramesses for the Qids game).
(more Egyptian mayhem)But the 'sand kings of Kelham' were undoubtedly the Peterborough club (with more fantasy nonsense) who brought and set up their own sand table.
It was quite shallow, and wasn't really coloured up (other than as sand ...) but nevertheless, it was interesting to see it (cleverly) done - and yes, even though it was comparatively shallow, it was a big table and there were heaps of sand ... as became apparent when they started scooping it all up at the end of the day.
(more sand ... much more sand)My sand was just a dry brush effect using household emulsions ('Prairie Gold' and 'Parchment' colours over a 'Coffee' base - there, you see ... I knew you'd ask)
DBA V3
Even seasoned players have found the 'base widths' movement pleasing and well balanced, and with Egyptians and Libyans, the play runs very smoothly and plausibly.
We need to get Phil to clarify a wording issue on shooting, otherwise the rules and play are nice and clear.
As well as liking the movement, players have liked the changes to rear support (less of it), Psiloi movement (group moves in bad going etc.) and Psiloi outcomes (e.g. fleeing when doubled in shooting). with the Libyan army nearly half Psiloi, it is good to see they can do well against the heavier New Kingdom forces (we have done this set up over a dozen times and the armies a roughly level pegging) ...
We allow a little bit of diced-for terrain (as that is a feature of V3). I'm so pleased to see Phil replace the irrevocably broken terrain system in previous versions of the game. Time will tell what needs adjusting in the new mechanism, but the new set up is already better.
Not being destroyed by blocked recoils is a significant improvement, especially for us using the game as an introduction to ancients at shows (and for all comers) - explaining to players why they must lose elements just because they recoil at an inconvenient angle (despite there being precious little justification for it in military history) has always been thorny. The newer approach seems much truer to DBA's game scale.
I have to own up I couldn't resist a few snaps of this game (played between a father and son, neither of them familiar with DBx or with ancients) ...
Against Dad's linear tactic, and against our better advice, the lad chose to block his Egyptian army up into a huge single group wedge. It looked awesome, but we were all pretty sure it wouldn't work.
(New Kingdom Egyptian Panzerkeil)As the enemy approached, the wedge split apart into three columns (it was like watching a well choreographed movie).
(Charge! You can get a bigger image by clicking on the picture)Each of the fronts subsequently got overlapped, but survived, the columns spread out, and ... defeated the shallow lines of warriors. And we really thought it couldn't possibly work.
Then again, it was an example of a lad beating his Dad at DBA (and that I have seen on numerous occasions!).
DBA Version 3 seems a better game than Version 2.2 from a historical player perspective. I have been surprised by how well it has stood up to all comers (the real 'road' test) ...
Dale has summarised the main diferences V3 brings neatly on his DBA Blog ( here ... )
I have time off this weekend to play some FoG at Burton ... and the Society Shows Team will be out and about at Cavalier at the end of the month.
See you there ...
5th February, York Racecourse
Wed, Feb 8 2012 04:49
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VAPNARTAK 2012The snow bound trip into York for Vapnartak was something of an adventure and had I known that I would end up driving my notoriously slithery German RWD vehicle on fresh compacted snow, I probably would have bottled it (overseas readers: bottled it = chickened out/not gone).
As it was, I was tail-gunner on the Gentlemen Pensioners (Lance & Longbow/SoA) expedition and just followed where the vanguard led. And that got us into the show just about by opening time (and if some of it was achieved more by faith than judgement, I'm not telling ...)...
Saturday was an altogether sunnier affair as we had all gotten together in Salford for a big Sudan battle the day before the show (see below). What a great idea for a wargaming weekend (big battle on Saturday, show on Sunday. What's a few snowflakes?!).
(Vapnartak: York Racecourse, 5th February 2012)Back with Vapnartak, although some Societies get pride of place, The Society of Ancients does not. Nobody will tell me why. We have loyally supported this show since back in the Merchant Adventurers' days - yet every year they find a way of pushing us even further off the beaten track. This year we were out of the show proper up amongst the competition tables. A few visitors found us but most didn't.
(wargame in a box ... tucked away in a corner - the Society of Ancients at Vapnartak)I guess it must be because they don't want Participation Games and anything other than 28mm, but I wish they would tell us as we always try to involve people and introduce newcomers to historical wargames etc. whenever asked, they always approve (then stick us where we can't be found by any potential players! Doh!) .
(Lance & Longbow Society's simple but effective Ravenna game)
(Curteys put on this big if slightly anonymous version of Plataea)Many evenings of work went into this year's 'Lords of the Nile' project (which will see better locations at other shows ...) so it was a pity so few saw the combination of tradition German flats with modern terrain presentation and WRG's latest trial of DBA V3. Looks splendid, don't you think? Ah, well ...
More on Lords of the Nile below. And you will get a better opportunity to see it at Hammerhead this coming weekend.
(display tables at Vapnartak)
(WWII: German columns doing what they do best)
(some nice early 20th C. soldiers in the Middle east)Vapnartak is therefore a trade show mixed with 28mm clumsy tables and a labour intensive Flea Market. There were some good offerings amongst the 28mm stuff (though, as is increasingly the case at York, nothing much new or imaginative) ... here's a quick tour, but you are better served by visiting 28mm drool sites for this show if you like that sort of thing.
(my favourite downstairs game: Ilkley's old school game with traditional wargames soldiers)So ... nice venue, nice people, strange priorities. I'm sure we will continue to support the show as long as they continue to accommodate us (but I'm not sure that will be for much longer as out in the car park is probably next for historical wargaming's biggest volunteer association ...) ..
Gentlemen Pensioners Big Game (day before Vapnartak) ...
This was a Sudan game played with 28mm figures and using The Sword and the Flame roughly based on the battle of Firkat.
(Firkat mounted Mahdists emerge victorious from the desert flank)For a balanced and fuller view of the game, you might like to visit other Gentlemen's blogs ...
Fire at Will
Wargames Amateur
Now commenting on a game played using the hugely popular TSATF rules is tricky ground. The rules are extremely clumsy and characterless: slow to resolve and very arbitrary. Inevitably, as a pioneer of the use of cards, I quite like the sequencing of movement and shooting by playing card (but in all honesty, most other games that use that mechanism do it better). And using D6 for some rolls, D20s for others, isn't gaining points for elegance. Then, of course we must have saving rolls. The combat system is a triumph of tedium over efficiency.
(twilight at Firkat and the Mahdists celebrate as the Egyptians run away)I am a great social wargamer and really enjoyed pushing the colonial toys around with friends I have known now for as much as 30 years. We could make the game worthwhile and entertaining using any old mechanism, however dubious or un-promising. But just for balance, given the misleadingly positive spin The Sword and the Flame so regularly gets, I thought it proper to record my view of the rules themselves: the worst so-called 'historical' wargames rules I play all year ... not even close on Black Powder, Science vs Pluck or PitS (or something you scribbled down the night before) in my opinion. All the things I dislike in a set of rules rolled into one package. I commanded the Mahdidsts, by the way, and we won. So don't let that cloud your judgement.
And yes, I'd happily do it all again (as the whole thing was a great game despite the rules) ...
Lords of the Nile (DBA V3) at Vapnartak ...
I'll say a little more after the game has its second run at Hammerhead. Phil Barker kindly emailed me the latest trial version of V3 a couple of days before the show and we played the game through a few time both with seasoned DBA enthusiasts and complete newcomers to the DB system.
(DBA V3: close combat in the lands of the Pharaoh)Of course, it worked very smoothly and cleanly in all the games and V3 generally seems both to work better than 2.2 and to give a more intuitive and cleaner game (less 'gamey'/easier to play). The movement is in basewidths and seems to work better than the older system. Rear Support and consequent losses are much simplified giving a more authentic flavour and better balance. The games themselves took about the same time to play as previously (despite an expectation that the games might be a bit quicker) ...
Those people who were able to find the Society stand at Vapnartak seemed to enjoy seeing the game played with these refurbished veterans of yesterday's wargaming and they are, indeed, a pleasure to play with. They have the size of 28mm with none of the clumsiness - in a different world they might even catch on :O)
(The Egyptian army's lone element of Psiloi heads for the security of the Teddy Bear fur)
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21st - 22nd January, Usk
Sat, Jan 28 2012 01:41
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Godendag 2012Back on the road again after the short winter break. Short winter break? OK, it has felt like a good break courtesy of a family Christmas down at Dartmoor and hasn't felt like winter because the weather has been kind.
The Usk weekend is more an annual weekend away with old friends and toy soldiers than a 'competition' (but don't they all feel like that these days? - well, OK, let's leave Britcon out of the assessment then ... I'm talking about Doubles ... )...
Hats off to Field of Glory, though. I had long argued that the 'renaissance' period was a surprisingly poor relation to 'ancients' given the period's unique mix of pageantry and military innovation. Commonly thought of as covering the transition from the high Chivalry of the Italian Wars to the uniform coated regular armies at the start of the 17th Century - it is hard to see what doesn't appeal ...
(FoG-R ... adding artillery to the combination of Men-at-Arms and pike blocks)FoG-R seems to haved tapped into this less exploited vein of military history, and at events like Godendag has attracted player numbers not at all typical of previous tournament offerings (say, DBR). At Godendag, FoG-AM (Ancient and Medieval) needed to combine its player numbers (20 teams) with DBM (12 teams) to keep 'ancients' ahead in popularity. FoG-R with 24 teams was the single most popular choice.
Astute mathematicians will have come to their own tally already :) ... Over 100 people playing Ancient to Renaissance wargames for a wet January weekend in south Wales ... indeed you can't doubt how healthy and appealing this sort of thing is.
(FoG-AM ... feudal and medieval splendour)Choice of periods for the AM category gave us a free run at the medieval period and we picked with moist eye rather than a cynical mind, maybe. The good news about my old Feudal Spanish (7th edition and DBM veteran) Aragonese is that, resplendent in its 11th century FoG version, it has won its last 5 engagements (including a whole day of decisive bonus wins that earned it a pot in Halifax ...) ... The not so good news is that (only Armoured in FoG) it can easily get found out by heavily armoured troops (like most of the entrants you might expect in this event), and its principal skirmish weapon - the javelin or dart - needs careful handling (or a bit of luck, like we got in Halifax) to bring any advantage.
OK - that's a bit pompous: the risk is there will be plenty of troops who can outrun us, plenty of troops who can out fight us, plenty of troops who can outshoot us, and plenty of armies that will outnumber us. Feudal Aragonese have an endless will to fight but have top trumps in no department!
Day One hamstrung us. Because of date, we got drawn against one of two identical Xi Xia armies (of that sort that dismounts almost everything if it wants to). It did dismount (despite having an armour advantage), and using IC initiative, then turned the battlefield into a cabbage patch (further protecting its dismounted troops from any mounted threat).
(stiking close together: Spanish foot needing 5s and seeing off some Xi Xia cavalry)It looked like a stalemate strategy, and despite our best efforts, turned out to be so - a marginal defeat by a point.
Sadly, the other Xi Xia (which was a pair who had split to even the draw, and had duplicated their army to do so) used the same tactic with the same results. That made them odds on to draw us in the next round. And they did. And out came the same cabbage patch and dismounts - and the same stalemate ensued.
Two perfectly good games of their sort. Less ambitious than I like, but the whole point of these events is to embrace challenges that are not always played your way.
I am a bit grumpy though, as the consequence of the Xi Xia split was that the same game/army was in the draw twice. And the procedure generally follows that you shouldn't get the same game twice. But we did. Perfectly good players but we didn't get our fair share of variety.
(game 2: Aragonese skirmishers push beyond the cabbage patch but the heavier troops have to go round or through)Sunday morning brought us a Latin Greek conundrum ... did they have Catalan allies? If they didn't we were probably going to face overwhelming numbers of knights who were more heavily armoured than our own. If they did, we were probably going to be confronted by another cabbage patch (and another draw). As soon as the terrain process began it was clear that it was the cabbage patch.
Of course, I have no problem with Aragonese vs Catalans, but having used Latin Greek myself, I think it needs to fight in the open to get a big result. Unfortunately the terrain dice gave us another oversized compulsory piece slap in the middle of the table.
What are the chances of that I hear you ask ... well around 1:6 actually (they get middle/we can't shift it much) but like all long shots, it slowed up all of the first three games.
Players, of course, think about their own armies and look to manipulate the terrain system to gain an edge. A fault of the ex-WRG terrain system FoG continues with. I'd just say that - against an Aragonese army a third of which is javelin skirmisher - churning up the middle of the table with dodgy terrain is a good way not to get a result.
We did our best to take the game to the Latins and got the better of the score draw. Only 28 points from 3 games which start out 10-10 (down 10% after 11 hours wargaming) ...
(game 4: some splendidly turned out Frenchmen to fight)Finally, against a French army that wanted to get at us, in Game 4, battle was joined across a relatively open field - and, despite their better armour and nasty looking Switzers, good prospects of a result.
Skirmishing against them was hard work and we took some initial shocks from the new technology of their hand gunners. We recovered and set about them with sticks and stones, chasing them off and creating the opportunity of getting at their heavier troops not all of who were top quality.
We managed to break the French pikes with javelin skirmishing, and got our knights into their unstaked English archers without taking critical damage (which is enough) - and by game end we had won a couple of uneven knight melees against the odds as well. Exciting game.
(the flower of feudal Spain battle it out - and those archers are not looking happy)All told, we came up 1 attrition point short of routing the army (although I think we made a couple of mistakes towards the end which flattered the Aragonese) - nevertheless we got a pretty emphatic result that needed maybe one more turn to complete. Perhaps the others had been right to go for their cabbage patch games!
Thanks to all the players, back-slappers and comrades in arms. A very enjoyable visit to Usk as usual.
(FOG-R: those plucky Africans closing in)Very nice also to see the Renaissance armies ... including an Aztec army originally painted by Lee from down the road, and Richard and Patrick's brave Africans also taking on metal armoured Europeans in FoG-R
I last played that Aztec army back at a Loughborough period Britcon (I think I was invading Mexico with a army of Hohenstauffen Sicilian adventurers if that makes any sense - which I suspect it won't) ... great paint job, plus imaginative baggage and a pyramid temple. Worth another look of course.
(Aztec Baggage from a DBM original)Of the ancients categories, honours went to Dave Ruddock and Ian Stewart in the FoG-AM and to Dave Madigan and Chris Smith in the DBM.
Us? Oh, we came 9th out of 20 teams with 44 points in the end. Just ahead of the game, and with a handful of dead generals to crow about.
I will post a link to the results when I get the information.
FOG-AM
DBM
Some decisions to make about Burton Doubles
But hopefully we will see you at Vapnartak next week where I will be doing an Egyptian game with those pretty classic flats - but in an up-to-date twist, I'm trying them out for DBA and giving you a taste of the new version 3.
Don't forget to sign up with the Society of Ancients by the end of the month
SoA Memberships page
2011 - Bank Holiday review ...
Mon, Jan 2 2012 05:56
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Farewell 2011
Well, a big thank you to the 2-3,000 people who tune in every month to follow the Society of Ancients Shows (North) Team as we tour the country (not all of it North, but that's another story ...) ...
That audience is about 40% up on last year, and for those of you who like statistics, just over 50% of you are UK based. Then, 25% of you are USA, 5% Australia, 4% each for Denmark and Germany, 3% each France and Canada, 2% each Italy, Spain and Russia. I am grateful to all of you, from all over the world.
I have added in a dozen or so of the very popular 'specials', and, in addition to 10 tournaments, we attended 21 Wargames Shows ... Pictures can sometimes speak louder than words, so here are the Postcards from the Front: clicking on them (for a change) will take you to the Show Report)
Assembling that package, I'm both impressed with what we achieved over the year and excited by the year to come. All is ahead of us again!
The most popular posts continue to be the game/army-related specials, top of the list now being the DBA Special on my Sub Roman British army ...
(Sub Roman British DBA Generals element)
Do I have a favourite picture with which to finish 2011? Well ... let's try these ...
(I do love 'statement' architecture, so my Postcard from Portsmouth is a this year favourite)
(the Hail Caesar Crusades game from SELWG came out very nicely ...)...
(although very recent, I was very pleased by how the captioning on this quite average picture I took at Recon served as a nice topic header for the Society of Ancients/Lance & Longbow Wakefield game/WOTR theme zone at Recon) ...
Don't forget to resubscribe early and I hope to see plenty of you at Vapnartak in a month's time
Happy New Year!
Well, a big thank you to the 2-3,000 people who tune in every month to follow the Society of Ancients Shows (North) Team as we tour the country (not all of it North, but that's another story ...) ...
That audience is about 40% up on last year, and for those of you who like statistics, just over 50% of you are UK based. Then, 25% of you are USA, 5% Australia, 4% each for Denmark and Germany, 3% each France and Canada, 2% each Italy, Spain and Russia. I am grateful to all of you, from all over the world.
I have added in a dozen or so of the very popular 'specials', and, in addition to 10 tournaments, we attended 21 Wargames Shows ... Pictures can sometimes speak louder than words, so here are the Postcards from the Front: clicking on them (for a change) will take you to the Show Report)
Assembling that package, I'm both impressed with what we achieved over the year and excited by the year to come. All is ahead of us again!
The most popular posts continue to be the game/army-related specials, top of the list now being the DBA Special on my Sub Roman British army ...
(Sub Roman British DBA Generals element)Do I have a favourite picture with which to finish 2011? Well ... let's try these ...
(I do love 'statement' architecture, so my Postcard from Portsmouth is a this year favourite)
(the Hail Caesar Crusades game from SELWG came out very nicely ...)...
(although very recent, I was very pleased by how the captioning on this quite average picture I took at Recon served as a nice topic header for the Society of Ancients/Lance & Longbow Wakefield game/WOTR theme zone at Recon) ...Don't forget to resubscribe early and I hope to see plenty of you at Vapnartak in a month's time
Happy New Year!
November/December - Northamptonshire
Fri, Dec 23 2011 02:29
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A busy end of the year ...
Indeed ... in amongst the end of year shows and the odd administrative task, there's been quite a lot going on.
(click on the images if you want a better look at some of the photos)
(Graham's Byzantines near completion: the flocked ones are the new recruits and are classic Donnington figures)
I managed to get another Championship game or two ... Graham hasn't finished his Gothic Wars Armati army quite yet (and so had to sub in a few Piggie Parthians) but I think it looks splendid (and it's always nice to see another new ancients army take the field locally) ...
(armoured horse archers: the core of the Byzantine army of the Gothic War)
It also fought pretty sternly too - taking 4 of Totila's maximum of 6 before capitulating after losing its own 5 Break Points (Armati, that is ... Belisarius breaking on 5 key units down, Totila, 6, due to the Byzantines' slightly smaller, slightly higher specification force)..
In their first combat outing, the Belisarians got fewer of their missile troops to bear in the opening phase, and managed the evolution of lines slightly less well than the Goths (and so were always playing catch up - in footie speak).. But a tough test that could easily have gone the other way had the dice gods so chosen.
(Totila uses tactics to draw the Byzantines into the combat zone)
For some extra Armati army lists (including Totila's Goths), have a look at Warfloot (WF Army menu, Triumph of Cavalry)
I also managed to get to call in on the WD London crowd's pre-Christmas game ... long enough to wish everyone greetings for the season and present the 2010 Paul Morris Prize to John Bassett for his Roman Politics games.
(give us your entries for 2011 or the bunny gets it: John Bassett accepts the Paul Morris Prize for 2010)
Submissions are live for the 2011 Paul Morris Prize: awarded annually for the most innovative non-commercial game within the Society's remit. Contact me via 'comments', the Society Yahoo group, or, say, ancmed, if you have a runner to recommend. It needs to have been presented publicly during the course of 2011, and the panel will need a synopsis of how it works and why it is a winner. It need not be by a Society member.
(A Roman vignette: something for the display cabinet more than the table top)
I've also been grappling with the aesthetics of the flats project and organising the newly acquired collection. Whilst some are just being painted and tidied for display, such as these Romans caught by the Parthians at Carrhae ...
... many are being sorted for the Plataea game - and for now, at least, will be based up on clear plastic to maintain the look of individual loose basing beloved of 1960s photographers. I think this will actually look striking (in a good way) and give that 'new look to an old favourite' that I am looking for.
(sorting out figures for the big Plataea game)
But I will base up the Egyptians and enemies in the modern idiom (grit, grass, pebbles and dry bushing ... rather like those Romans) as a group of DBA armies.
For our last game before Christmas, I put a couple of trial versions out (New Kingdom, early years vs Nubians - though I used the Libyan list as I wanted to field a chariot general ... so I/22a vs I/7b) ... and I have to say all three of us were quite taken with the look.
(a crudely mocked up pair of armies that proved a great success with the players)
The unique look seems to suit Barker's pretty abstract game. The flats, of course, are 30mm, so about the same size as 28mm but without the clumsy look of modern figures.
(the Egyptian infantry running before Pharoaoh)
These shots are just of a mock up of course - even so I think the photos capture that 'something worth exploring' appeal of the figures. The Nubians are nearly ready bar the basing but there is still a lot of painting required on the Egyptians (and I need to think about some camps and general clutter).
(no issues with fitting the figures to the frontage with these figures of course)
Watch this space, as I think if I can do a decent job on them these armies will look splendid and be well worth a little feature.
Christmas is coming. 3 months and 1 week til the BattleDay (they do say time flies when you're having fun!) ...
Don't forget to subscribe to the Society of Ancients by the end of January.
(online subscriptions page)
(Totila's Goths ride out the year eager for another battle)
Indeed ... in amongst the end of year shows and the odd administrative task, there's been quite a lot going on.
(click on the images if you want a better look at some of the photos)
(Graham's Byzantines near completion: the flocked ones are the new recruits and are classic Donnington figures)I managed to get another Championship game or two ... Graham hasn't finished his Gothic Wars Armati army quite yet (and so had to sub in a few Piggie Parthians) but I think it looks splendid (and it's always nice to see another new ancients army take the field locally) ...
(armoured horse archers: the core of the Byzantine army of the Gothic War)It also fought pretty sternly too - taking 4 of Totila's maximum of 6 before capitulating after losing its own 5 Break Points (Armati, that is ... Belisarius breaking on 5 key units down, Totila, 6, due to the Byzantines' slightly smaller, slightly higher specification force)..
In their first combat outing, the Belisarians got fewer of their missile troops to bear in the opening phase, and managed the evolution of lines slightly less well than the Goths (and so were always playing catch up - in footie speak).. But a tough test that could easily have gone the other way had the dice gods so chosen.
(Totila uses tactics to draw the Byzantines into the combat zone)For some extra Armati army lists (including Totila's Goths), have a look at Warfloot (WF Army menu, Triumph of Cavalry)
I also managed to get to call in on the WD London crowd's pre-Christmas game ... long enough to wish everyone greetings for the season and present the 2010 Paul Morris Prize to John Bassett for his Roman Politics games.
(give us your entries for 2011 or the bunny gets it: John Bassett accepts the Paul Morris Prize for 2010)Submissions are live for the 2011 Paul Morris Prize: awarded annually for the most innovative non-commercial game within the Society's remit. Contact me via 'comments', the Society Yahoo group, or, say, ancmed, if you have a runner to recommend. It needs to have been presented publicly during the course of 2011, and the panel will need a synopsis of how it works and why it is a winner. It need not be by a Society member.
(A Roman vignette: something for the display cabinet more than the table top)I've also been grappling with the aesthetics of the flats project and organising the newly acquired collection. Whilst some are just being painted and tidied for display, such as these Romans caught by the Parthians at Carrhae ...
... many are being sorted for the Plataea game - and for now, at least, will be based up on clear plastic to maintain the look of individual loose basing beloved of 1960s photographers. I think this will actually look striking (in a good way) and give that 'new look to an old favourite' that I am looking for.
(sorting out figures for the big Plataea game)But I will base up the Egyptians and enemies in the modern idiom (grit, grass, pebbles and dry bushing ... rather like those Romans) as a group of DBA armies.
For our last game before Christmas, I put a couple of trial versions out (New Kingdom, early years vs Nubians - though I used the Libyan list as I wanted to field a chariot general ... so I/22a vs I/7b) ... and I have to say all three of us were quite taken with the look.
(a crudely mocked up pair of armies that proved a great success with the players)The unique look seems to suit Barker's pretty abstract game. The flats, of course, are 30mm, so about the same size as 28mm but without the clumsy look of modern figures.
(the Egyptian infantry running before Pharoaoh)These shots are just of a mock up of course - even so I think the photos capture that 'something worth exploring' appeal of the figures. The Nubians are nearly ready bar the basing but there is still a lot of painting required on the Egyptians (and I need to think about some camps and general clutter).
(no issues with fitting the figures to the frontage with these figures of course)Watch this space, as I think if I can do a decent job on them these armies will look splendid and be well worth a little feature.
Christmas is coming. 3 months and 1 week til the BattleDay (they do say time flies when you're having fun!) ...
Don't forget to subscribe to the Society of Ancients by the end of January.
(online subscriptions page)
(Totila's Goths ride out the year eager for another battle)11th December, Birmingham
Thu, Dec 22 2011 04:07
| Permalink
Wargamer 2011 (Great Barr Leisure Centre)
(ready for action at Wargamer 2011)
Wargamer, Derby and Partizan are my nearest shows, all within an hour. For me, Wargamer is the end of the shows year and the point where Shows North goes into Winter Quarters - generally until Vapnartak at the start of February.
I ended up doing this show solo due to lack of volunteers. It is a less busy show than some others so it isn't something that couldn't be managed ... same time, it is an appropriate tone on which to end the year, as the Society has several hundred members who live within easy reach of the show but who are obviously far too busy to help for half of a morning.
Those of us who have invested more than two decades of voluntary effort into the Society have come under attack of late for not being able to summon up sufficient candidates for vacant positions on the Society admin team to allow the ones who don't volunteer a proper democratic vote.
Well it seems to me that if our members are so pressed for time that not even one can volunteer 2 or 3 hours once a year on a Sunday morning (within the enclaves of one of the biggest cities in the United Kingdom), you might as well whistle for a choice of officers.
(Coming of the English DBA game)
But I digress ... the Society took along a choice of DBA options (Double Zama and conventional Arthur against the Early English), which was handy as Barkers, Phil and Sue Laflin, joined us for a pleasant hour or so chewing the DBA V3 fat, and chatting about the games.
I did my best to persuade Phil that Double-based Elements are off scale for DBA (he is wedded to the idea that the game should represent the fact that some troops characteristically fought in deeper formations, and doesn't like the implication that this chrome is lost in 'true scale' DBA unless you use 10mm or 6mm figures) ... Sue tried to engage Phil with the good looks of those double ranked 10mm figures on my Zama board ... and I think we all had to acknowledge that Phil knows more about the formation of Hellenistic pikemen (Pk, who benefit from rear support) than Italian Medieval Crossbowmen (8Bw, a 'compulsory' Double-based Element - DBE - in the current and apparently revised versions of DBA)*
(the gauntlet thrown down: Totila's Gothic army)
I had hoped to get a Championship game in if there were any takers, and so had Totila's Ostrogothic army on hand (DBA, Armati or FoG 650 configurations available) ... but that seems to have run out of steam too, as wargamers prepare to veg out for Christmas ...
(Wargamer 2011: very attractive Napoleonics game)
(Wargamer 2011: Cobridge lads with their big 15mm Armati game)
Which leaves me asking the dwindling circle of volunteers (and blog commentors can join in too ...)... what do we want to do for shows in 2012 ... What themes, what games - if the current formula doesn't float your boat, the blank page is open. Of course, the majority of enthusiasts didn't answer that question for 2011, yet ...
(Wargamer 2011: Shrewsbury club's impressive 18th century Carribean game)
(civilian details from the game)
For me, the flats project for Plataea will dominate the first few months, though I can't see it featuring at shows much before its big day at the end of March (Plateaea BattleDay at Sycamore Hall (Bletchley) Milton Keynes, 31st March 2012) ...
I had a plan to do a 54mm Chariot Racing game, but it won't be any of the conventional commercial products (least of all the clumsy slow and dull Circus Maximus) ... and I won't have any painting time before April at the earliest (so it's more of a 2013 project I suspect) ...
I had intended to work on an ancients naval game (Peloponessian War period) with 10mm figures on the ships ... (and that would certainly support the Ancient Greek theme )...
(Wargamer 2011: 28mm Thirty years War game)
(close up of some of the infantry)
And undoubtedly we will continue our combined displays with the Lance & Longbow Society (We did the Elephant game and GitS earlier in the year, but the big combo was Verneuil at The Other Partizan ...) ...
(more great detail from the Wyrley Retinue TYW game)
But the bottom line must remain what do you want to do? It is your Society of Ancients ...
Christmas is coming.
*Civic Crossbowmen seem to have enjoyed a ratio of 3:1 against pavisiers, suggesting the whole body formed up 4 ranks deep (quite plausible given the lack of testimony to 'lofted shots' for the crossbow) ... at best, 1 element depth in DBA. Hellenistic pikes, of course customarily formed up 4 times that depth ... 16 ... sometimes, indeed, 32 ... As a parallel, a new DBE is being introduced to simulate deep Theban hoplite formations (famously '50 shields deep'): it seems breathtakingly inappropriate to represent 16 to 32 ranks of pikemen with an option to be one or two elements deep in the game whilst compelling 4 ranks of crossbow/pavisiers to be on double depths (which, technically, being 'Bw' in DBA is actually physically deeper than 50 ranks of Thebans!)! But what would I know?
(ready for action at Wargamer 2011)Wargamer, Derby and Partizan are my nearest shows, all within an hour. For me, Wargamer is the end of the shows year and the point where Shows North goes into Winter Quarters - generally until Vapnartak at the start of February.
I ended up doing this show solo due to lack of volunteers. It is a less busy show than some others so it isn't something that couldn't be managed ... same time, it is an appropriate tone on which to end the year, as the Society has several hundred members who live within easy reach of the show but who are obviously far too busy to help for half of a morning.
Those of us who have invested more than two decades of voluntary effort into the Society have come under attack of late for not being able to summon up sufficient candidates for vacant positions on the Society admin team to allow the ones who don't volunteer a proper democratic vote.
Well it seems to me that if our members are so pressed for time that not even one can volunteer 2 or 3 hours once a year on a Sunday morning (within the enclaves of one of the biggest cities in the United Kingdom), you might as well whistle for a choice of officers.
(Coming of the English DBA game)But I digress ... the Society took along a choice of DBA options (Double Zama and conventional Arthur against the Early English), which was handy as Barkers, Phil and Sue Laflin, joined us for a pleasant hour or so chewing the DBA V3 fat, and chatting about the games.
I did my best to persuade Phil that Double-based Elements are off scale for DBA (he is wedded to the idea that the game should represent the fact that some troops characteristically fought in deeper formations, and doesn't like the implication that this chrome is lost in 'true scale' DBA unless you use 10mm or 6mm figures) ... Sue tried to engage Phil with the good looks of those double ranked 10mm figures on my Zama board ... and I think we all had to acknowledge that Phil knows more about the formation of Hellenistic pikemen (Pk, who benefit from rear support) than Italian Medieval Crossbowmen (8Bw, a 'compulsory' Double-based Element - DBE - in the current and apparently revised versions of DBA)*
(the gauntlet thrown down: Totila's Gothic army)I had hoped to get a Championship game in if there were any takers, and so had Totila's Ostrogothic army on hand (DBA, Armati or FoG 650 configurations available) ... but that seems to have run out of steam too, as wargamers prepare to veg out for Christmas ...
(Wargamer 2011: very attractive Napoleonics game)
(Wargamer 2011: Cobridge lads with their big 15mm Armati game)Which leaves me asking the dwindling circle of volunteers (and blog commentors can join in too ...)... what do we want to do for shows in 2012 ... What themes, what games - if the current formula doesn't float your boat, the blank page is open. Of course, the majority of enthusiasts didn't answer that question for 2011, yet ...
(Wargamer 2011: Shrewsbury club's impressive 18th century Carribean game)
(civilian details from the game)For me, the flats project for Plataea will dominate the first few months, though I can't see it featuring at shows much before its big day at the end of March (Plateaea BattleDay at Sycamore Hall (Bletchley) Milton Keynes, 31st March 2012) ...
I had a plan to do a 54mm Chariot Racing game, but it won't be any of the conventional commercial products (least of all the clumsy slow and dull Circus Maximus) ... and I won't have any painting time before April at the earliest (so it's more of a 2013 project I suspect) ...
I had intended to work on an ancients naval game (Peloponessian War period) with 10mm figures on the ships ... (and that would certainly support the Ancient Greek theme )...
(Wargamer 2011: 28mm Thirty years War game)
(close up of some of the infantry)And undoubtedly we will continue our combined displays with the Lance & Longbow Society (We did the Elephant game and GitS earlier in the year, but the big combo was Verneuil at The Other Partizan ...) ...
(more great detail from the Wyrley Retinue TYW game)But the bottom line must remain what do you want to do? It is your Society of Ancients ...
Christmas is coming.
*Civic Crossbowmen seem to have enjoyed a ratio of 3:1 against pavisiers, suggesting the whole body formed up 4 ranks deep (quite plausible given the lack of testimony to 'lofted shots' for the crossbow) ... at best, 1 element depth in DBA. Hellenistic pikes, of course customarily formed up 4 times that depth ... 16 ... sometimes, indeed, 32 ... As a parallel, a new DBE is being introduced to simulate deep Theban hoplite formations (famously '50 shields deep'): it seems breathtakingly inappropriate to represent 16 to 32 ranks of pikemen with an option to be one or two elements deep in the game whilst compelling 4 ranks of crossbow/pavisiers to be on double depths (which, technically, being 'Bw' in DBA is actually physically deeper than 50 ranks of Thebans!)! But what would I know?
Comments (1)
3rd December, Pudsey
Fri, Dec 16 2011 11:54
| Permalink
RECON 2011
Shows North made its penultimate move of the season up to Yorkshire for Recon last Saturday.
This was with the President flying solo due to the usual lack of volunteers*, but thankfully as part of a 'multi agency' display, so help was occasionally on hand.
The focus at Recon was a reconstruction of the 1460 Battle of Wakefield - the winter campaign following Northampton ... celebrating a December battle in West Yorkshire (the 550th was 2010 but it took a year for the plan to come together) ...
We were ...
The Society of Ancients
The Lance & Longbow Society
The Towton Battlefield Society
Together with historian/author Helen Cox
In addition to the miniature reconstruction - which was based on Helen's alternative interpretation - the TBS's associated reenactors were on hand in period costume with a selection of 16th century weaponry and armour to support the theme.
Many thanks
to Helen for explaining the story of the battle to me. I always struggle keeping up with the political convolutions of the wars of the Roses and the exact reasons why the campaigns sprung up when they did. Wakefield, being in December, seems oddly timed.
After capturing the King at the battle of Northampton, Richard Duke of York faced a winter in which the Lancastrians reorganised and rebuilt. Moving from London to counter a Northern build up, he reached the security of Sandal Castle at Wakefield after a rough encounter with the Lancastrian vanguard at Worksop.
York had probably underestimated the strength of the Lancastrian threat, and found himself outnumbered (probably at least 2:1) but easily able to hold his position within the castle.
Then, inexplicably, on 30th December, he emerged and gave battle on unfavourable and was undone. We have no definitive account of why, though a combination of treachery and miscalculation are at the likely heart.
(Towton Battlefield Society weapons display)
(the Lancastrians at Wakefield 1460)
(16th century Continental style Crossbow)
The show seemed lively and well attended (until the customary northern dissolution from 2pm onwards) and in all respects was a friendly and well supported event with a good mix of trade and things to do , games to play and stuff to look at.
(some impressive Late Roman infantry)
(Medieval Participation Game)
I didn't get to do much 'show going' as I was flying the stand solo, but spotted some good ancient and medieval games, and there is also a HOTT tournament at the event.
We will next be up in these parts for Vapnartak in the New Year. If you are local to these events you might like to volunteer to help out.
(the battle of Wakefield reaches a crescendo)
Don't forget to resubscribe to the Society of Ancients by the end of January
(online subscriptions)
* 'Volunteering' - quick definition ... doing something of benefit to others without expecting to get paid for it. It's probably worth appending that to the blog as although today's wargamer seems to understand 'getting something on the cheap because other people put the work in without asking you to pay for it', they don't seem to get the consequence that occasionally you should also do your bit. I've been a strong advocate over the years of not castigating the ordinary member for this (they also support who only pay their sub ...), but when the proportions fall so below 4% volunteer and more than 96% benefit there is obviously some head scratching to do.
Shows North made its penultimate move of the season up to Yorkshire for Recon last Saturday.This was with the President flying solo due to the usual lack of volunteers*, but thankfully as part of a 'multi agency' display, so help was occasionally on hand.
The focus at Recon was a reconstruction of the 1460 Battle of Wakefield - the winter campaign following Northampton ... celebrating a December battle in West Yorkshire (the 550th was 2010 but it took a year for the plan to come together) ...
We were ...
The Society of Ancients
The Lance & Longbow Society
The Towton Battlefield Society
Together with historian/author Helen Cox
In addition to the miniature reconstruction - which was based on Helen's alternative interpretation - the TBS's associated reenactors were on hand in period costume with a selection of 16th century weaponry and armour to support the theme.
Many thanks
to Helen for explaining the story of the battle to me. I always struggle keeping up with the political convolutions of the wars of the Roses and the exact reasons why the campaigns sprung up when they did. Wakefield, being in December, seems oddly timed.After capturing the King at the battle of Northampton, Richard Duke of York faced a winter in which the Lancastrians reorganised and rebuilt. Moving from London to counter a Northern build up, he reached the security of Sandal Castle at Wakefield after a rough encounter with the Lancastrian vanguard at Worksop.
York had probably underestimated the strength of the Lancastrian threat, and found himself outnumbered (probably at least 2:1) but easily able to hold his position within the castle.
Then, inexplicably, on 30th December, he emerged and gave battle on unfavourable and was undone. We have no definitive account of why, though a combination of treachery and miscalculation are at the likely heart.
(Towton Battlefield Society weapons display)
(the Lancastrians at Wakefield 1460)
(16th century Continental style Crossbow)The show seemed lively and well attended (until the customary northern dissolution from 2pm onwards) and in all respects was a friendly and well supported event with a good mix of trade and things to do , games to play and stuff to look at.
(some impressive Late Roman infantry)
(Medieval Participation Game)I didn't get to do much 'show going' as I was flying the stand solo, but spotted some good ancient and medieval games, and there is also a HOTT tournament at the event.
We will next be up in these parts for Vapnartak in the New Year. If you are local to these events you might like to volunteer to help out.
(the battle of Wakefield reaches a crescendo)Don't forget to resubscribe to the Society of Ancients by the end of January
(online subscriptions)
* 'Volunteering' - quick definition ... doing something of benefit to others without expecting to get paid for it. It's probably worth appending that to the blog as although today's wargamer seems to understand 'getting something on the cheap because other people put the work in without asking you to pay for it', they don't seem to get the consequence that occasionally you should also do your bit. I've been a strong advocate over the years of not castigating the ordinary member for this (they also support who only pay their sub ...), but when the proportions fall so below 4% volunteer and more than 96% benefit there is obviously some head scratching to do.
1st December, Northamptonshire
Fri, Dec 2 2011 11:10
| Plataea BattleDay
| Permalink
Plataea BattleDay Special No. 2
(general view of our Plataea trial using 20mm traditional plastic figures)
Rules, Orbats, General thinking.
We had the first outline kick around the other evening. I asked to try Neil Thomas's Ancient and Medieval Wargaming (AMW) as an interesting starting point.
The reason is simple. It has been suggested that as my plan entails using the flats, I might consider Tony Bath's original rules (which were conceived with flats in use). This involved a fiddly system for individual figure removal with which I am not impressed - the world has moved on (and so did Tony Bath's own methodology).
I am more interested in his post combat morale tests in which more of a stricken unit might desert and run as a consequence. Interestingly, AMW, which has full base removal, also has a morale test when a base is lost which might result in the unit disintegrating further.
So, allowing us to think about this (and as a low impact way to push the toys around) Graham helpfully set up a straight Greeks and Persians tussle.
As I know from when we played through Marathon sometime back, it is a walk over for the Greeks. 8 units v 8 units (standard Neil Thomas) the Greeks lost 1 unit by the time the Persians broke (6 down).
(plastic phalanx: the Athenian wing at Plataea)
The archery was sort of deadly - but not quite deadly enough. Losing a base makes Hoplites lose their special cohesion, which costs them a pip on the dice. But losing a base isn't quite a telling risk, and the one pip isn't quite enough to swing the combat (the hoplites will still roll more dice than archers - and then the armour saves ... hoplites save on 4+, 'unarmoured' Persians save on a 6 ... close the deal).
All justifiable - but Herodotus styles it a much tighter affair, implying there is a real contest for the Persian shield line, and only thereafter is the fight one-sided (and defined by the Greeks' longer spears and better armour) ...
I'm not suggesting I go with AMW but it clarified the critical points ... a Persian arrow storm which the Greeks survive (quite possibly by the expedient of sitting down, crouched behind their shields) ... a battle for the shield barricade which the Persians are able to contest - for a while at least ... then a one-sided affair once the barricade is lost (ultimately ending with the Persians trapped in their wooden refuge where they are put to the sword).
Orbats:
I've been looking at a recently published volume, Sparta at War, Strategy Tactics and Campaigns, 550 - 362 BC by American scholar Scott M Rusch ( Amazon link ). So far so good. I particularly like the way he simplifies the issue of numbers and deployment by listing the free Greek contingents, and specifying who they fought against.
I will reproduce that list:
GREEK HOPLITES .................... PERSIAN FOOT OPPOSITE THEM
10,000 Lacedaemonians .............................. Native Persians
1,500 Tegeans ............................................. Native Persians
5,000 Corinthians ............................................. Medes
300 Potideans ....................................................Medes
600 Orchomenians ........................................... Medes
3000 Sicyonians .................................................Medes
800 Epidaurians .............................................. Bactrians
1000 Troezenians............................................ Bactrians
200 Lepreates ................................................. Bactrians
400 Myceneans and Tirynthians ..................... Bactrians
1000 Phliasians ............................................... Bactrians
300 Hermioneans ............................................. Indians
600 Eretrians and Styrians ............................... Indians
400 Chalcidians ................................................. Indians
500 Ambraciots .................................................. Sacae
800 Leucadians and Anactorians ........................ Sacae
200 Paleans from Cephallenia ............................ Sacae
500 Aeginetans ................................................... Sacae
3000 Megarians .......................................... Subject Greeks
600 Plataeans ............................................. Subject Greeks
8000 Athenians .......................................... Subject Greeks
The Greeks who take on the Indians number around 1300, those that take on the Sakae 2,000: these are probably the lowest level to represent in the game ... about 1/6 in size compared with, say, the Spartans or the Immortals.
Rusch largely ignores the light troops and all the number crunching that goes with them. He has them protecting the flanks and tying up the numerous Persian cavalry so that the battle is left an infantry contest between the opposing contingents in the list. Neat.
The armies had been against each other for some time by the time of battle, and each contingent knew their place in the line and their probable opponents. Thus the battle has the feel of a series of prize-fights between the hurriedly summoned up forces as an encounter balloons into a set-piece battle.
I have to say the latter perspective very much put me in mind of Strategos or Hail Caesar and the contingent initiative rolls rapidly throwing units forward as the enemy tries to do likewise ...
So something somewhere between Tony Bath and Hail Caesar (but which runs at the pace of AMW) will do nicely. Possibly with a more deadly archery effect which can be nullified by sitting down behind your shield?
How to depict the barricade of shields will be critical. Those Spara/Gherra shields are big but pretty flimsy, you'd have thought ... Then again, if hoplite combat usually involves a good deal of jousting and not a lot of shoving (at least not much before the general othismos ..)... that jousting will be pretty ineffectual until the whole body of troops summons enough group momentum to push beyond the barricade and put their armour and better weapons to good effect.
2 more things we might like to look at.
I'm tempted to look at retaining NT's combat model, but possibly introducing differing unit sizes. It might be a way of improving the Persian arrow storm and allowing a more worrying combat prospect for the otherwise dominant Greeks. Perhaps the Persian should be allowed on such 'massed volley'? It might be that the Sparabarra rank cannot set up or man the barricade and shoot(?) ... so once the position is set, the shooting diminishes?
It would mean that the Persian army would end up being numerically bigger than the Greek whilst giving AMW's matching off of contingent v contingent. Hmmm. I think we could live with that.
(beset by archers: Greek contingents at Plataea)
And I suspect the shield barricades should negate any natural Hoplite benefit in combat (at contact at least - should the Hoplites need to 'win' a round of combat in order to push the barricade aside and for combat then to follow the hoplite v heavy archer norm? That sounds like the Herodotus story ...)
1. Break the unit size mould and give the Persians more bases.
2. Move Shooting to beginning of the move (except if skirmishers reserve their fire for split moves) allowing HI to choose to hide behind their shields (not move later in the turn) for a better save.
3. Introduce a special rule to enable the shield barricade to equalise the combat until the Greeks overcome it. The men in the shield rank are no longer able to shoot.
4. Look at the battle starting without all the units in place, and allowing the commanders to hurry contingents into the fray - given the leaders knew whom they would face, I suggest the appearance of a contingent on one side will prompt the appearance of its opponent on the other ....
Well, there is a skeleton of a game emerging from the test run, I think. I am not convinced the eventual game will be AMW, and I'm happy the methodology will translate to other systems.
Hopefully this will help move the discussion on the the key features of the battle as I am keen to hear how other designers are approaching these issues.
(The Greek right wing on the point of victory: few Persians remain on the field)
(general view of our Plataea trial using 20mm traditional plastic figures)Rules, Orbats, General thinking.
We had the first outline kick around the other evening. I asked to try Neil Thomas's Ancient and Medieval Wargaming (AMW) as an interesting starting point.
The reason is simple. It has been suggested that as my plan entails using the flats, I might consider Tony Bath's original rules (which were conceived with flats in use). This involved a fiddly system for individual figure removal with which I am not impressed - the world has moved on (and so did Tony Bath's own methodology).
I am more interested in his post combat morale tests in which more of a stricken unit might desert and run as a consequence. Interestingly, AMW, which has full base removal, also has a morale test when a base is lost which might result in the unit disintegrating further.
So, allowing us to think about this (and as a low impact way to push the toys around) Graham helpfully set up a straight Greeks and Persians tussle.
As I know from when we played through Marathon sometime back, it is a walk over for the Greeks. 8 units v 8 units (standard Neil Thomas) the Greeks lost 1 unit by the time the Persians broke (6 down).
(plastic phalanx: the Athenian wing at Plataea)The archery was sort of deadly - but not quite deadly enough. Losing a base makes Hoplites lose their special cohesion, which costs them a pip on the dice. But losing a base isn't quite a telling risk, and the one pip isn't quite enough to swing the combat (the hoplites will still roll more dice than archers - and then the armour saves ... hoplites save on 4+, 'unarmoured' Persians save on a 6 ... close the deal).
All justifiable - but Herodotus styles it a much tighter affair, implying there is a real contest for the Persian shield line, and only thereafter is the fight one-sided (and defined by the Greeks' longer spears and better armour) ...
I'm not suggesting I go with AMW but it clarified the critical points ... a Persian arrow storm which the Greeks survive (quite possibly by the expedient of sitting down, crouched behind their shields) ... a battle for the shield barricade which the Persians are able to contest - for a while at least ... then a one-sided affair once the barricade is lost (ultimately ending with the Persians trapped in their wooden refuge where they are put to the sword).
Orbats:
I've been looking at a recently published volume, Sparta at War, Strategy Tactics and Campaigns, 550 - 362 BC by American scholar Scott M Rusch ( Amazon link ). So far so good. I particularly like the way he simplifies the issue of numbers and deployment by listing the free Greek contingents, and specifying who they fought against.
I will reproduce that list:
GREEK HOPLITES .................... PERSIAN FOOT OPPOSITE THEM
10,000 Lacedaemonians .............................. Native Persians
1,500 Tegeans ............................................. Native Persians
5,000 Corinthians ............................................. Medes
300 Potideans ....................................................Medes
600 Orchomenians ........................................... Medes
3000 Sicyonians .................................................Medes
800 Epidaurians .............................................. Bactrians
1000 Troezenians............................................ Bactrians
200 Lepreates ................................................. Bactrians
400 Myceneans and Tirynthians ..................... Bactrians
1000 Phliasians ............................................... Bactrians
300 Hermioneans ............................................. Indians
600 Eretrians and Styrians ............................... Indians
400 Chalcidians ................................................. Indians
500 Ambraciots .................................................. Sacae
800 Leucadians and Anactorians ........................ Sacae
200 Paleans from Cephallenia ............................ Sacae
500 Aeginetans ................................................... Sacae
3000 Megarians .......................................... Subject Greeks
600 Plataeans ............................................. Subject Greeks
8000 Athenians .......................................... Subject Greeks
The Greeks who take on the Indians number around 1300, those that take on the Sakae 2,000: these are probably the lowest level to represent in the game ... about 1/6 in size compared with, say, the Spartans or the Immortals.
Rusch largely ignores the light troops and all the number crunching that goes with them. He has them protecting the flanks and tying up the numerous Persian cavalry so that the battle is left an infantry contest between the opposing contingents in the list. Neat.
The armies had been against each other for some time by the time of battle, and each contingent knew their place in the line and their probable opponents. Thus the battle has the feel of a series of prize-fights between the hurriedly summoned up forces as an encounter balloons into a set-piece battle.
I have to say the latter perspective very much put me in mind of Strategos or Hail Caesar and the contingent initiative rolls rapidly throwing units forward as the enemy tries to do likewise ...
So something somewhere between Tony Bath and Hail Caesar (but which runs at the pace of AMW) will do nicely. Possibly with a more deadly archery effect which can be nullified by sitting down behind your shield?
How to depict the barricade of shields will be critical. Those Spara/Gherra shields are big but pretty flimsy, you'd have thought ... Then again, if hoplite combat usually involves a good deal of jousting and not a lot of shoving (at least not much before the general othismos ..)... that jousting will be pretty ineffectual until the whole body of troops summons enough group momentum to push beyond the barricade and put their armour and better weapons to good effect.
2 more things we might like to look at.
I'm tempted to look at retaining NT's combat model, but possibly introducing differing unit sizes. It might be a way of improving the Persian arrow storm and allowing a more worrying combat prospect for the otherwise dominant Greeks. Perhaps the Persian should be allowed on such 'massed volley'? It might be that the Sparabarra rank cannot set up or man the barricade and shoot(?) ... so once the position is set, the shooting diminishes?
It would mean that the Persian army would end up being numerically bigger than the Greek whilst giving AMW's matching off of contingent v contingent. Hmmm. I think we could live with that.
(beset by archers: Greek contingents at Plataea)And I suspect the shield barricades should negate any natural Hoplite benefit in combat (at contact at least - should the Hoplites need to 'win' a round of combat in order to push the barricade aside and for combat then to follow the hoplite v heavy archer norm? That sounds like the Herodotus story ...)
1. Break the unit size mould and give the Persians more bases.
2. Move Shooting to beginning of the move (except if skirmishers reserve their fire for split moves) allowing HI to choose to hide behind their shields (not move later in the turn) for a better save.
3. Introduce a special rule to enable the shield barricade to equalise the combat until the Greeks overcome it. The men in the shield rank are no longer able to shoot.
4. Look at the battle starting without all the units in place, and allowing the commanders to hurry contingents into the fray - given the leaders knew whom they would face, I suggest the appearance of a contingent on one side will prompt the appearance of its opponent on the other ....
Well, there is a skeleton of a game emerging from the test run, I think. I am not convinced the eventual game will be AMW, and I'm happy the methodology will translate to other systems.
Hopefully this will help move the discussion on the the key features of the battle as I am keen to hear how other designers are approaching these issues.
(The Greek right wing on the point of victory: few Persians remain on the field)19th - 20th November, Reading (Rivermead)
Fri, Dec 2 2011 02:34
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WARFARE 2011Later November sees the ever popular 2-day Reading show, Warfare - a matchless mix of games, trade and tournament tables and Bring & Buy.
It is a successful mix - why, even I bought something on the Bring & Buy!
My 'tour of duty' on the Society stand was on Sunday, but Philip Sabin has sent some photos of his Pydna game which was the Society's contribution to day one's showcase.
(players cluster round the Society's Pydna game on Saturday)Perseus of Macedon's fateful showdown with the Roman Republic under the command of Aemilius Paullus (son of the Aemilius Paullus who fought Hannibal at Cannae) ...
(photo coutresy of Philip Sabin)I understand a number of the Society's 2012 Committee got together in the evening and chewed over their ideas for next year ... I'm sure you will want to give them as much support as I do. What better an occasion to get the ball rolling.
(See who's on the new Committee )
(some colourful Arab infantry from Sunday's game)On Sunday David Edwards took over the table and presented a Byzantine Wars try-out table sampling Field of Glory and some colourful 28mm Byzantines and Turks.
(click on the image if you would like a bigger view)
(the Varangians attack: Field of Glory Participation Game at Warfare 2011 by The Society of Ancients)Elsewhere there were other ancients games on display ... It was very nice to see the Malvern group with another of their 28mm Armati games. A nice big table and lots of kit - tis time on an El Cid theme. See, it isn't all just 15mm ...
(The Age of El Cid: 28mm Armati Demonstration Game)
Very much the ancients family, though not an ancients game, I was quite taken with the First Battle of Newbury, put on by some WAR members. First time I've really seen FoG-R done as a presentation game, and great to see the battle through the enclosures.
(15mm English Civil War: Field of Glory Renaissance)More pictures here ( ECW Battles )
I'm told some of the inspiration came from a Battlefield Walk with Chris Scott.
You can link to the Battlefields Trust ( here )
Keeping us in touch with the forthcoming Plataea theme, there was an interesting 28mm Clash of Empires encounter between Greeks and Persians.
(Clash of Empires Persian Wars)
(28mm Persian Sparabara infantry)
(28mm Spartan Hoplites ready themselves for action)Although they didn't tag it with any specific incident, the good looking layout and rolling engagements reminded me of the Plataea scenario.
There was the usual choice of games outside our period, many of which looked very attractive ...
(28mm Japanese troops in the Jungle)
The Skirmish Wargames Society won the top award for their Napoleonic game.
(award-winning 54mm Napoleonics from the SWS game)A very nice day out, and special thanks to the Malvern club, the Clash of Empires enthusiasts and the Battle of Newbury presenters for taking the trouble to explain their games and ideas to me. Nice games - approachable, enthusiastic people.
Some people started to pack up early on the Sunday - but I understand Saturday had been very busy and it had been a long weekend
The show raised just over £900 for the RNLI and £550 for Help for Heroes ...
(6mm Cambrai display. We will remember them)On the latter topic, there was very clean 6mm Cambrai game - my Grandfather was there in one of those tanks ... a RTR original who thankfully made it through the war otherwise I wouldn't be here to enjoy the peace and freedom so many laid down their lives for.
Thanks to everybody who contributed to a great show.
